<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Notes: Genesis 36-37</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.actsseventeen.com/2008/02/09/notes_2008-02-09/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.actsseventeen.com/2008/02/09/notes_2008-02-09</link>
	<description>Trinity International Baptist Church in Athens, Greece</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.actsseventeen.com/2008/02/09/notes_2008-02-09#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actsseventeen.com/2008/02/09/notes_2008-02-09#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Alex, I concur with the comments that Cynthia made to you following the Shoher article.

&lt;blockquote&gt;" ... I will summarize why I disagree with his interpretation:
1. He mentions that the Jews have a law that punishes kidnappers and murderers of Jews and that the brothers weren’t punished. This seems to be one of the reasons why he feels they couldn’t have intended to kidnap or murder Joseph, but the Law (Torah) wasn’t given to the Jews until Moses (quite a bit after Joseph lived), therefore, there was no law in force at the time this story takes place.
2. He mentions that when Joseph went to find his brothers at Shechem, they had moved away to Dothan. In his opinion, this shows that his brothers had decided to “play a joke on him”, but the clear indication of the text is that they moved on to Dothan before Joseph ever arrived. They did not see him coming from far away until he sought them out at Dothan.
3. The conversation among the brothers clearly indicates a plan to kill him, until Reuben suggests leaving him in a well to die so that they don’t personally shed his blood. Apparently Reuben leaves the group for awhile, though it is not explicitly in the written account, and while he is gone Judah suggests selling Joseph into slavery when he spots a caravan of Midianites coming. His thinking, as he states in the text, is that it is better to get some profit from their brother Joseph than to just kill him. Reuben is upset when he returns and finds Joseph gone because it spoiled his plan to rescue his brother Joseph later.
4. If you read later in Genesis 42, when his brothers come to Egypt to get supplies during the famine, they discuss among themselves that they are having problems because of the sins they committed against Joseph. They have clearly harbored much guilt through the years for their evil actions and the grief they had caused their father.
5. Mr. Shoher mentions the youth of the “boys” and believes them to be too young to have such evil intent as to purposely want to kill Joseph or sell him into slavery. But Joseph was the 11th of 12 boys. All 10 of his older brothers, plus a sister, Dinah, were born before him. This would make the majority of them well into adulthood, even at the rate of one birth per year. They were not boys but men."&lt;/blockquote&gt;


His argument is neither literal nor strong; though a few of his comments are worthy of further consideration.

&lt;ul&gt;

a.  Joseph's brothers were not punished for murder or kidnap. True. They did fully expect Joseph's retribution following the death of Jacob, however, as they knew Joseph understood their intent quite well; and only the grace of God prevented it. Read Genesis 50:15-21.

b.  To declare Judah's overall righteousness because of his later change in character seems a bit hasty. Remember his affair with a harlot (Genesis 38:11-30).

c.  Shoher's bracketed addendum refers to editorial changes to the text. I'd like to see some hard evidence to support his leaning on the theories of textual criticism. It's too easy to declare that text is not genuine rather than to submit to its teaching in faith.
&lt;/ul&gt;


No, one cannot say that Joseph's brothers intended only to play a practical joke on their little brother.  Their evil and hateful intent was to be rid of him by leaving him in a waterless pit (not too unlike condemning him to hell) to die; but their following Judah's suggestion that they might be rewarded for their effort, actually ended up saving both Joseph and themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, I concur with the comments that Cynthia made to you following the Shoher article.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8221; &#8230; I will summarize why I disagree with his interpretation:<br />
1. He mentions that the Jews have a law that punishes kidnappers and murderers of Jews and that the brothers weren’t punished. This seems to be one of the reasons why he feels they couldn’t have intended to kidnap or murder Joseph, but the Law (Torah) wasn’t given to the Jews until Moses (quite a bit after Joseph lived), therefore, there was no law in force at the time this story takes place.<br />
2. He mentions that when Joseph went to find his brothers at Shechem, they had moved away to Dothan. In his opinion, this shows that his brothers had decided to “play a joke on him”, but the clear indication of the text is that they moved on to Dothan before Joseph ever arrived. They did not see him coming from far away until he sought them out at Dothan.<br />
3. The conversation among the brothers clearly indicates a plan to kill him, until Reuben suggests leaving him in a well to die so that they don’t personally shed his blood. Apparently Reuben leaves the group for awhile, though it is not explicitly in the written account, and while he is gone Judah suggests selling Joseph into slavery when he spots a caravan of Midianites coming. His thinking, as he states in the text, is that it is better to get some profit from their brother Joseph than to just kill him. Reuben is upset when he returns and finds Joseph gone because it spoiled his plan to rescue his brother Joseph later.<br />
4. If you read later in Genesis 42, when his brothers come to Egypt to get supplies during the famine, they discuss among themselves that they are having problems because of the sins they committed against Joseph. They have clearly harbored much guilt through the years for their evil actions and the grief they had caused their father.<br />
5. Mr. Shoher mentions the youth of the “boys” and believes them to be too young to have such evil intent as to purposely want to kill Joseph or sell him into slavery. But Joseph was the 11th of 12 boys. All 10 of his older brothers, plus a sister, Dinah, were born before him. This would make the majority of them well into adulthood, even at the rate of one birth per year. They were not boys but men.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>His argument is neither literal nor strong; though a few of his comments are worthy of further consideration.</p>
<ul>
<p>a.  Joseph&#8217;s brothers were not punished for murder or kidnap. True. They did fully expect Joseph&#8217;s retribution following the death of Jacob, however, as they knew Joseph understood their intent quite well; and only the grace of God prevented it. Read Genesis 50:15-21.</p>
<p>b.  To declare Judah&#8217;s overall righteousness because of his later change in character seems a bit hasty. Remember his affair with a harlot (Genesis 38:11-30).</p>
<p>c.  Shoher&#8217;s bracketed addendum refers to editorial changes to the text. I&#8217;d like to see some hard evidence to support his leaning on the theories of textual criticism. It&#8217;s too easy to declare that text is not genuine rather than to submit to its teaching in faith.
</ul>
<p>No, one cannot say that Joseph&#8217;s brothers intended only to play a practical joke on their little brother.  Their evil and hateful intent was to be rid of him by leaving him in a waterless pit (not too unlike condemning him to hell) to die; but their following Judah&#8217;s suggestion that they might be rewarded for their effort, actually ended up saving both Joseph and themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.actsseventeen.com/2008/02/09/notes_2008-02-09#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actsseventeen.com/2008/02/09/notes_2008-02-09#comment-68</guid>
		<description>What do you think, please, of Obadiah Shoher's interpretation of the story?  He takes the text literally to prove that the brothers played a practical joke on Yosef rather than intended to murder him or sell him into slavery. His argument seems fairly strong to me, but I'd like to hear other opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think, please, of Obadiah Shoher&#8217;s interpretation of the story?  He takes the text literally to prove that the brothers played a practical joke on Yosef rather than intended to murder him or sell him into slavery. His argument seems fairly strong to me, but I&#8217;d like to hear other opinions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
